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Archie characters in Watchmen

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Post Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:42 pm
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Mikel Midnight Apr 3 2004, 9:41 pm show options

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From: Mikel Midnight <blakl...@best.outdamnspam.com> - Find messages by this author
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 02:41:27 GMT
Local: Sat,Apr 3 2004 10:41 pm
Subject: Archie characters in Watchmen
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Years ago, there was a thread on one of the alt.comics groups about the
information that Alan Moore had originally plotted the Watchmen
storyline for the Archie heroes ... meaning the Mighty Crusaders (it
probably featured the Shield getting assasinated, who knows?). Someone
deliberately misinterpreted this and did an hilarious parody of Watchmen
using Pureheart the Powerful, Captain Hero, Super-Betty, etc etc. I
wish I could track it down again, I'd love to host it on my site if the
original author would give his permission. Mikel Midnight
"You will die, sir, either on the gallows or from the
pox." (John Montagu, fourth Earl of Sandwich)
"That depends, sir, on whether I embrace your principles
or your mistress." (John Wilkes, sometime friend of his
and rakish member of the aristocracy)


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Post Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:44 pm
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Mark J. Reed Apr 3 2004, 9:50 pm show options

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From: Mark J. Reed <m...@thereeds.org> - Find messages by this author
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 02:50:50 GMT
Local: Sat,Apr 3 2004 10:50 pm
Subject: Re: Archie characters in Watchmen
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Mikel Midnight <blakl...@best.outdamnspam.com­> writes:
>Years ago, there was a thread on one of the alt.comics groups about the
>information that Alan Moore had originally plotted the Watchmen
>storyline for the Archie heroes ... meaning the Mighty Crusaders (it
>probably featured the Shield getting assasinated, who knows?).


Who are the Mighty Crusaders? When I see "Archie heroes" I think of
Archie, Betty, Veronica, etc.


>Someone deliberately misinterpreted this and did an hilarious parody of
>Watchmen using Pureheart the Powerful, Captain Hero, Super-Betty, etc etc. I
>wish I could track it down again, I'd love to host it on my site if the
>original author would give his permission.


Is this what you're looking for?
,!-- m -->, class="postlink" ,="http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Comi">http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Comi,!-- m -->­cs/Humor/Archie%20Comics%20Wat­chmen

-Mark
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Post Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:45 pm
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Dave Menard Apr 3 2004, 9:58 pm show options

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From: "Dave Menard" <menard507...@SPAMrogers.com> - Find messages by this author
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 02:58:27 GMT
Local: Sat,Apr 3 2004 10:58 pm
Subject: Re: Archie characters in Watchmen
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"Mark J. Reed" <m...@thereeds.org> wrote in message
news:eKKbc.11134$yN6.3712@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...



> Mikel Midnight <blakl...@best.outdamnspam.com­> writes:
> >Years ago, there was a thread on one of the alt.comics groups about the
> >information that Alan Moore had originally plotted the Watchmen
> >storyline for the Archie heroes ... meaning the Mighty Crusaders (it
> >probably featured the Shield getting assasinated, who knows?).

> Who are the Mighty Crusaders? When I see "Archie heroes" I think of
> Archie, Betty, Veronica, etc.



You might know them better as the Impact comics heroes- the Shield, The Fly,
the Black Hood, The Web, the Jaguar, The Comet, etc.

Dave
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Post Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:45 pm
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Duggy Apr 3 2004, 10:16 pm show options

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From: Duggy <jc122...@jcu.edu.au> - Find messages by this author
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 13:15:52 +1000
Local: Sat,Apr 3 2004 10:15 pm
Subject: Re: Archie characters in Watchmen
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On Sun, 4 Apr 2004, Mikel Midnight wrote:
>Years ago, there was a thread on one of the alt.comics groups about the
>information that Alan Moore had originally plotted the Watchmen
>storyline for the Archie heroes ... meaning the Mighty Crusaders (it
>probably featured the Shield getting assasinated, who knows?). Someone
>deliberately misinterpreted this and did an hilarious parody of Watchmen
>using Pureheart the Powerful, Captain Hero, Super-Betty, etc etc. I
>wish I could track it down again, I'd love to host it on my site if the
>original author would give his permission.


It wasn't the Archie characters, it was Charlton.

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Post Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:46 pm
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Dan McEwen Apr 3 2004, 10:38 pm show options

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From: Dan McEwen <dannyboym...@hotmail.com> - Find messages by this author
Date: 4 Apr 2004 03:38:35 GMT
Local: Sat,Apr 3 2004 10:38 pm
Subject: Re: Archie characters in Watchmen
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Mark J. Reed <m...@thereeds.org> wrote in



news:eKKbc.11134$yN6.3712@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:
> Mikel Midnight <blakl...@best.outdamnspam.com­> writes:
>>Years ago, there was a thread on one of the alt.comics groups about
>>the information that Alan Moore had originally plotted the Watchmen
>>storyline for the Archie heroes ... meaning the Mighty Crusaders (it
>>probably featured the Shield getting assasinated, who knows?).

> Who are the Mighty Crusaders? When I see "Archie heroes" I think of
> Archie, Betty, Veronica, etc.



No, not them. The Shield, the Fly, Fly Girl, Steel(?), and, um, others
whose names escape me at the moment. I think there was briefly a line
of books put out by DC called "Impulse" that featured these heroes, but
they had been around much longer.
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Post Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:46 pm
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Mark J. Reed Apr 3 2004, 10:47 pm show options

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From: Mark J. Reed <m...@thereeds.org> - Find messages by this author
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 03:47:33 GMT
Local: Sat,Apr 3 2004 10:47 pm
Subject: Re: Archie characters in Watchmen
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Dan McEwen <dannyboym...@hotmail.com> writes:
>Mark J. Reed <m...@thereeds.org> wrote in
>news:eKKbc.11134$yN6.3712@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:
>> Who are the Mighty Crusaders? When I see "Archie heroes" I think of
>> Archie, Betty, Veronica, etc.


Okay, read about these folks on toonopedia.com. Wow, how exactly did Simon and
Kirby not sued by the Shield folks over Captain America? Right down to the
source of his powers.

-Mark
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Post Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:46 pm
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Duggy Apr 3 2004, 10:56 pm show options

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From: Duggy <jc122...@jcu.edu.au> - Find messages by this author
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 13:56:44 +1000
Local: Sat,Apr 3 2004 10:56 pm
Subject: Re: Archie characters in Watchmen
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On Sun, 4 Apr 2004, Mark J. Reed wrote:
>Okay, read about these folks on toonopedia.com. Wow, how exactly did Simon and
>Kirby not sued by the Shield folks over Captain America? Right down to the
>source of his powers.


Because S&K were ripping off their own character they'd created earlier?

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Post Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:47 pm
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Mark J. Reed Apr 3 2004, 11:03 pm show options

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From: Mark J. Reed <m...@thereeds.org> - Find messages by this author
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 04:03:40 GMT
Local: Sat,Apr 3 2004 11:03 pm
Subject: Re: Archie characters in Watchmen
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Duggy <jc122...@jcu.edu.au> writes:
>On Sun, 4 Apr 2004, Mark J. Reed wrote:
>>Okay, read about these folks on toonopedia.com. Wow, how exactly did Simon and
>>Kirby not sued by the Shield folks over Captain America? Right down to the
>>source of his powers.
>Because S&K were ripping off their own character they'd created earlier?


How do you figure? The Shield was created by Harry Shorten and Irv Novick.
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Post Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:47 pm
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Duggy Apr 3 2004, 11:18 pm show options

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From: Duggy <jc122...@jcu.edu.au> - Find messages by this author
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 14:18:39 +1000
Local: Sat,Apr 3 2004 11:18 pm
Subject: Re: Archie characters in Watchmen
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On Sun, 4 Apr 2004, Mark J. Reed wrote:
>Duggy <jc122...@jcu.edu.au> writes:
>>On Sun, 4 Apr 2004, Mark J. Reed wrote:
>>>Okay, read about these folks on toonopedia.com. Wow, how exactly did Simon and
>>>Kirby not sued by the Shield folks over Captain America? Right down to the
>>>source of his powers.
>>Because S&K were ripping off their own character they'd created earlier?
>How do you figure? The Shield was created by Harry Shorten and Irv Novick.


S&K created Fighting American.

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Post Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:47 pm
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Mark J. Reed Apr 3 2004, 11:49 pm show options

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From: Mark J. Reed <m...@thereeds.org> - Find messages by this author
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 04:49:39 GMT
Local: Sat,Apr 3 2004 11:49 pm
Subject: Re: Archie characters in Watchmen
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Duggy <jc122...@jcu.edu.au> writes:
>On Sun, 4 Apr 2004, Mark J. Reed wrote:
>>Duggy <jc122...@jcu.edu.au> writes:
>>>On Sun, 4 Apr 2004, Mark J. Reed wrote:
>>>>Okay, read about these folks on toonopedia.com. Wow, how exactly did Simon and
>>>>Kirby not sued by the Shield folks over Captain America? Right down to the
>>>>source of his powers.
>>>Because S&K were ripping off their own character they'd created earlier?
>>How do you figure? The Shield was created by Harry Shorten and Irv Novick.
>S&K created Fighting American.


FA was much later - debuted in 1954, long after the original wave of superfolks
wearing Uncle Sam's longjohns.
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Post Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:48 pm
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Duggy Apr 4 2004, 12:11 am show options

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From: Duggy <jc122...@jcu.edu.au> - Find messages by this author
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 15:11:43 +1000
Local: Sun,Apr 4 2004 12:11 am
Subject: Re: Archie characters in Watchmen
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On Sun, 4 Apr 2004, Mark J. Reed wrote:
>>S&K created Fighting American.
>FA was much later - debuted in 1954, long after the original wave of superfolks
>wearing Uncle Sam's longjohns.


Fair enough.

Why weren't they sued?


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===
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Post Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:48 pm
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Henry Spencer Apr 4 2004, 1:40 am show options

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From: ,!-- e -->, ,="mailto:h...@spsystems.net">h...@spsystems.net,!-- e --> (Henry Spencer) - Find messages by this author
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 05:08:19 GMT
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Subject: Re: Archie characters in Watchmen
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In article <030420041841286159%blakl...@b­est.outdamnspam.com>,
Mikel Midnight <blakl...@best.outdamnspam.com­>



wrote:
>Years ago, there was a thread on one of the alt.comics groups about the
>information that Alan Moore had originally plotted the Watchmen
>storyline for the Archie heroes ... meaning the Mighty Crusaders ...


Nope. It's well-documented in print, including in accounts by Moore
himself, that Watchmen was originally written around the *Charlton*
superheroes, the rights to which DC had just acquired.

Dick Giordano objected to this -- perhaps partly because of some personal
attachment to those characters (he started at Charlton), definitely partly
because DC had plans for some of them -- given that most of them wouldn't
be usable for anything else after Watchmen. So changes were made, and the
plot mutated somewhat along the way as well.


Some of the correspondences remain pretty obvious: Rorschach is the
Question, the two Nite Owls are the two Blue Beetles, Ozymandias is Peter
Cannon / Thunderbolt, etc. Some got more obscure: the Comedian is the
Peacemaker, the second Silk Spectre is Nightshade, Captain Metropolis is
(if memory serves) Judomaster.
--
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since Oct; first surprises seen; papers pending. | ,!-- e -->, ,="mailto:h...@spsystems.net">h...@spsystems.net,!-- e -->
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Post Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:49 pm
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Bob Hughes Apr 4 2004, 8:20 am show options

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From: Bob Hughes <BOBHUG...@TTLC.NET> - Find messages by this author
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 07:24:26 -0400
Local: Sun,Apr 4 2004 7:24 am
Subject: Re: Archie characters in Watchmen
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On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 15:11:43 +1000, Duggy <jc122...@jcu.edu.au> wrote:
>On Sun, 4 Apr 2004, Mark J. Reed wrote:
>>>S&K created Fighting American.
>>FA was much later - debuted in 1954, long after the original wave of superfolks
>>wearing Uncle Sam's longjohns.

>Fair enough.


>Why weren't they sued?


>===
>= DUG.
>===



They were . Why do you think the shape of Captain America's shield
was changed?

Bob Hughes


Who's Whose at DC Comics? Creator Credits and art samples from DC's Golden and Silver Age Comics, especially Superman and Batman profiled at:
,!-- m -->, class="postlink" ,="http://www.supermanartists.com">http://www.supermanartists.com,!-- m -->­ics.org/superart.htm


"Information is not knowledge; knowledge is not wisdom; wisdom is not truth; truth is not beauty; beauty is not love; love is not music. Music is best."


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Post Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:49 pm
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Doyle Apr 4 2004, 9:49 am show options

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From: "Brian Doyle" <No_s...@freeserve.co.uk> - Find messages by this author
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 14:48:42 +0100
Local: Sun,Apr 4 2004 9:48 am
Subject: Re: Archie characters in Watchmen
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"Henry Spencer" <h...@spsystems.net> wrote in message


news:HvMrLv.K0G@spsystems.net...


> In article <030420041841286159%blakl...@b­est.outdamnspam.com>,
> Mikel Midnight <blakl...@best.outdamnspam.com­> wrote:
> >Years ago, there was a thread on one of the alt.comics groups about the
> >information that Alan Moore had originally plotted the Watchmen
> >storyline for the Archie heroes ... meaning the Mighty Crusaders ...

> Nope. It's well-documented in print, including in accounts by Moore
> himself, that Watchmen was originally written around the *Charlton*
> superheroes, the rights to which DC had just acquired.
> Some of the correspondences remain pretty obvious: Rorschach is the
> Question, the two Nite Owls are the two Blue Beetles, Ozymandias is Peter
> Cannon / Thunderbolt, etc. Some got more obscure: the Comedian is the
> Peacemaker, the second Silk Spectre is Nightshade, Captain Metropolis is
> (if memory serves) Judomaster.



A more stylistically accurate version of Nightshade is also shown in the
short lived of Silhouette.
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Post Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:50 pm
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Michael Apr 4 2004, 11:15 am show options

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From: Michael <jand...@charter.net> - Find messages by this author
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 08:15:33 -0700
Local: Sun,Apr 4 2004 11:15 am
Subject: Re: Archie characters in Watchmen
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Duggy wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Apr 2004, Mikel Midnight wrote:

>>Years ago, there was a thread on one of the alt.comics groups about the
>>information that Alan Moore had originally plotted the Watchmen
>>storyline for the Archie heroes ... meaning the Mighty Crusaders (it
>>probably featured the Shield getting assasinated, who knows?). Someone
>>deliberately misinterpreted this and did an hilarious parody of Watchmen
>>using Pureheart the Powerful, Captain Hero, Super-Betty, etc etc. I
>>wish I could track it down again, I'd love to host it on my site if the
>>original author would give his permission.


> It wasn't the Archie characters, it was Charlton.



Not that you couldn't use the Archie characters.

Archie, after years of teasing from Betty and Veronica becomes the
mysterious Rorshach.


Hurm.


Jughead becomes the Comedian, a hero servery changed by war.


Reggie become Ozymandias.


There was a brainy (I forget his name) who became Dr. Manhattan.


Veronica become the Silk Spectre.


Betty becomes a second female hero.


Moose becaomes Nite Owl.


Michael
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