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New Brand, News

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Post Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:21 pm
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For news about the brand name change & the future plans for Archie Super Hero comics, click here. The USA TODAY interview is here.



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Post Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:22 pm
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WELCOME TO DARK CIRCLE COMICS

Archie rebrands superhero imprint, plans slate of ‘cinematic’ and ‘literary’ titles
in the vein of hit AFTERLIFE WITH ARCHIE series

Today, Archie Comics announced plans to relaunch its superhero imprint with a new name: Dark Circle Comics. The name change signals a new direction for the superhero titles, which will feature a more cinematic, literary and mature approach to the characters told in accessible stories that will appeal to new and longtime fans.

Previously known as Red Circle Comics, the new imprint will announce a slate of titles in advance of Comic Con International: San Diego later this month. The imprint news broke in USA TODAY via an interview with Dark Circle Comics Editor Alex Segura. The story also debuted the imprint’s new logo.

“When we brought Alex onboard to oversee our superhero imprint, we knew we needed to be bold and decisive with how these books were presented, in every way. They couldn’t just be more of the same,” said Archie Comics Publisher/Co-CEO Jon Goldwater. “This is a fresh start and a new direction for these iconic characters. It all boils down to story – tales that feature compelling characters by some of the best talent in comics. Alex – with the help of myself, our President Mike Pellerito, CCO Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa and Editor Paul Kaminski – has carefully curated a line of comics that will hopefully be seen as the definitive interpretations of these characters for a long time. We couldn’t be more excited.”

“These will be creator-driven books telling new, genre bending stories with some of the best characters in comics,” said Segura. “They’ll be more akin to cable television shows like Boardwalk Empire, True Detective and Orange is the New Black. Unique voices telling stories about flawed characters from a range of genres, including crime, superhero adventure and off-the-wall action. These are definitely not all-ages comics – they’ll compete with the best Image, DC and Marvel have to offer. They won’t be bogged down by continuity while still carrying on the legacy of these heroes. Fans are in for a treat.”

Stay tuned for more exciting news from Dark Circle Comics in the coming days.
Rik
http://www.mightycrusaders.net
Everything you ever wanted to know about the Mighty Crusaders, from the Golden Age to today.

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Post Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:25 am
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I am okay with a reboot, and I am okay with a line of books. I hope they are not completely standalone, and that they are a shared universe of books and characters, even if only through loose links/cameos.
Discovering new superhero worlds through the MLJ/Mighty Crusaders legacy...

Post Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:05 pm
captainzero User avatar
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leonmallett wrote:
I am okay with a reboot, and I am okay with a line of books. I hope they are not completely standalone, and that they are a shared universe of books and characters, even if only through loose links/cameos.

Image

WELL, I'm going to be hopeful. I did a "spinal narrative" over on the Fan Fiction thread and I hope they remember the LEGACY of these heroes and they treat them well. '15 can't come soon enough.
(I still think they should hire me as an assistant editor.)
Would you guys get rid of those metal boxes for "Smilies" to the right of our posts. They are terrible to use. ,!-- s:_( -->:_(,!-- s:_( --> ,!-- s:x -->:x,!-- s:x --> ,!-- s:-& -->:-&,!-- s:-& --> ,!-- s[8^0) -->[8^0),!-- s[8^0) -->

I STILL want to see this story:Image


Will we see THE SHIELD:Image

Or will we see THE SHIELD-THE WIZARD TEAM!!??Image


WILL we see this Four-some??

Image

Or will we see THIS origin??
Image

Will we EVER see this?:
Image

If so, sign me up. I'll buy two of some of them. And stay with them as long as they treat these Golden Age heroes with the respect they deserve.

HOPE.

Archie Reboots Superhero Line as DARK CIRCLE COMICS, Promises Creator-Driven Stories
by Lucas Siegel, Site EditorDate: 10 July 2014 Time: 05:44 PM ET

Dark Circle's new logo
CREDIT: Archie Comics
View full size image
Archie Comics’ superheroes are back, but they’re sporting a new color. Gone is the age of the Red Circle lineup, and now a Dark Circle rises.

The new line will feature versions of characters from their previous superhero universe, one that has seen multiple reboots and relaunches - even from other publishers - over the years, but is separating itself to signify a true new start here. The plan, according to a press release, is to take a “cinematic, literary, and mature approach” to the new superhero line.

“These will be creator-driven books telling new, genre bending stories with some of the best characters in comics,” said editor Alex Segura in the release. “They’ll be more akin to cable television shows like Boardwalk Empire, True Detective and Orange is the New Black. Unique voices telling stories about flawed characters from a range of genres, including crime, superhero adventure and off-the-wall action. These are definitely not all-ages comics – they’ll compete with the best Image, DC and Marvel have to offer. They won’t be bogged down by continuity while still carrying on the legacy of these heroes. Fans are in for a treat.”


In an announcement interview with USAToday’s Brian Truitt, Segura teased a “dream team of creators,” who will be revealed ahead of Comic-Con International: San Diego in two weeks. Those creators will be able to “jump in without many rules,” Segura promised. “We’re handing them the keys and telling them to go crazy.” Those creators will be able to tap the “entire library of heroes, villains, worlds, and teams” in the rebranded Dark Circle vault.

”We’re not looking to be the 53rd book in (DC’s) ‘The New 52’ or the 12th X-Men book,” said the editor. “Those guys do those books well.” He went on to say he thinks the new line will take “iconic characters” and tell their “definitive stories” in a “creator-driven” way.

The Dark Circle line will debut in 2015.

I don't want them to "go crazy".... just establish the heroes.... write them well... with great stories and art. Easy.
The Fox was creators "going crazy" and it wasn't THAT great. It was almost "tongue in cheek Craziness" that wasn't very good. Geeesh. Look at the better stuff at Marvel and DC and reach up to that caliber.

I'll give examples: Brubaker's CAPTAIN AMERICA. Brubaker's WINTER SOLDIER. Millar's STARLIGHT and others. Stan Lee's stuff.
Mark Waid's writing is better than he gave us on THE FOX.... but you had the artist move the story instead of the writer.
There's so much good stuff that's been put out in the last 50 years that you should be able to find a basic format to approach these heroes. The re-establishment of the heroes only needs the details up-dated to a contemporary audience .... please don't give us "crazy crap"....

7/12/14:
Another thing: I think these heroes SHOULD be tied to the World War II stuff. That's what made them what they ARE.

IF YOU CUT THEM OFF FROM THAT LEGACY... their historic roots.... you cut them off at the knees on who they really are. Look at Captain America. At Namor, The Sub-Mariner. At The Human Torch. The original Vision. (appearing in the All-New INVADERS.) THAT period of the War spawned them... and to cut them off from that cuts them off from the very ground that they stand on.

The SHIELD'S machine that simulates and strengthens the major organs could be the vehicle for "RE-NEWING" them age-wise and strength wise. It could stimulate each hero with his own unique situation.

IF you destroy who they are, you are going to alienate the very FANS that love them and are "hard-core" about them.

I'll say it again: Look over at my "spinal narrative" on the Fan Fiction site.
You can re-write and up-date any story from the Golden Age.... and do as I suggested ....write the stories for those books based on THE COVER of the magazines. You can make or REMAKE YOUR OWN LEGACY.

If Archie does it wrong THIS TIME, I'm walkin'. I've been with them since 1959.... and waited for them "to do it right" since then. I've endured a great deal of punishment over all those years. (...As I'm sure other MLJ/Archie Adventure/Red Circle fans have. )

I think that's why so many of the attempts to revive them have failed. You tried to restart them as brand new heroes... with NOTHING to stand on.



I think Rich Buckler's attempt would have succeeded had Rich had an editor who knew where he was going and a writer who could deliver exciting stories. Buckler's art would have succeeded. Instead, things unraveled because you had to go to another artist.... and writer... and the thing just fell apart.

MAN, it seems so easy from the "peanut gallery". Why do you screw it up ALL THE TIME.???

You HAVE TO have a coordinated effort to screw up such wonderful heroes ....constantly. REALLY!!??

Image

HOW could you screw up this wonderful team of heroes.?? (And THE WIZARD and ROY aren't even there.!!)


Or THIS Great team: Which could be as great as the Sup/Bat team??
Image

These ARE exciting heroes ....and with the right talent and direction could be WONDERFUL ...ON-GOING comics.!!

Geeeesh!!

Post Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:21 am
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captainzero wrote:
...
Another thing: I think these heroes SHOULD be tied to the World War II stuff. That's what made them what they ARE

IF YOU CUT THEM OFF FROM THAT LEGACY... their historic roots.... you cut them off at the knees on who they really are. Look at Captain America. At Namor, The Sub-Mariner. At The Human Torch. The original Vision. (appearing in the All-New INVADERS.) THAT period of the War spawned them... and to cut them off from that cuts them off from the very ground that they stand on.
....


Sorry to disagree with such an impassioned statement, but the strength of the concepts should be what is at their core, not what time period they are/were rooted in.

Basically to keep that link to WWII you may as well keep the past continuity. I would argue either proposition is unnecessary baggage. DC has had two attempts with these characters, and both have been more successful than Archie's two attempts in the past 30 years, in terms of discrete issues published. The Archie books maintained the past history, the DC books did not.

While the Shield had strong ties to WWII, so did so many characters of the era, like Batman and Superman. Those two have done okay by having distance from the past. Flash, Green Lantern, Hawkman, Atom et al were reinvented in the 1950's and 1960's, and those reinventions have stuck, and had no connection to WWII. Of course DC were eventually able to have their cake and eat it once they did Flash of Two Worlds, but the point is that for characters like Flash, Green Lantern, Hawkman, Atom et al, their reinvented versions have remained the primary published template for those characters with each DC reboot, although of course visually Hawkman changed the least and has had the messiest history, primarily due to trying to reconcile the WWII stuff wit the space cop stuff.

The point is that characters can survive that separation from the era that spawned them, and with previous failed attempts by Archie behind them, including now it seems the New Crusaders, if they are to get it right, maybe they need to break with the past?

Finally, just how big a sell is a WWII link going to be to prospective new readers? The Invaders book may be doing okay for now, but it is ploughing a lonely furrow.
Discovering new superhero worlds through the MLJ/Mighty Crusaders legacy...

Post Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:35 am
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To do it right, IMHO opinion, Dark Circle needs to focus on the core conceptual strengths while modernizing them where necessary moving out the stuff that really does not work (so that means dump the stupid jet belt for Jaguar and explain why the name fits; tighten up Shield's origin to better reflect the core abilities of the character and explain in a modern context why he has adopted a patriotic persona; drop the Luck Charms motif for Comet's costume...).

To give an example from Marvel-inspired movies and the Ultimate version of the character; two rounds of movies have recognised that for Spider-man a radioactive spider just does not cut it today. A small tweak, but a necessary one.

Captain America is a man out of time, but the movies and the Ultimates showed that Namor did not have to hurl his block of ice into the sea, and in fact that version feels cheesy now.

I am not advocating wholesale changes, but judicious review of what works and what is frankly probably too corny for today's market.
Discovering new superhero worlds through the MLJ/Mighty Crusaders legacy...

Post Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:07 pm
captainzero User avatar
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leonmallett wrote:
To do it right, IMHO opinion, Dark Circle needs to focus on the core conceptual strengths while modernizing them where necessary moving out the stuff that really does not work (so that means dump the stupid jet belt for Jaguar and explain why the name fits; tighten up Shield's origin to better reflect the core abilities of the character and explain in a modern context why he has adopted a patriotic persona; drop the Luck Charms motif for Comet's costume...).

To give an example from Marvel-inspired movies and the Ultimate version of the character; two rounds of movies have recognized that for Spider-man a radioactive spider just does not cut it today. A small tweak, but a necessary one.

Captain America is a man out of time, but the movies and the Ultimates showed that Namor did not have to hurl his block of ice into the sea, and in fact that version feels cheesy now.

I am not advocating wholesale changes, but judicious review of what works and what is frankly probably too corny for today's market.

Well, at last we can disagree on something. Neither of us having to be right.
But I think THAT'S EXACTLY WHY these heroes have failed in every place that they've been tried ....is because they have been cut off from the very ground and reason they were created for.

Leon, you can have the Ultimates world. I don't want it. I'll take Namor throwing that chunk of ice into the sea over ANYTHING that's come out of the Ultimates Universe. Sorry. I'll take the Lee and Kirby explanation of the MARVEL UNIVERSE over anything that comes out today. It's not "cheesy" to me.
(I'm from the Merry Marvel Marching Society No. 2049 and Lee and Kirby created the Marvel Universe that I know. " I pledged allegiance to the mags of the Marvel Group, and to the madmen who put them on the stands. One bullpen, understaffed, indecipherable, with liberty and boo-boos for all.")

You can believe the stories of "lesser lights" in a twisted new marvel universe and imagine their world all you want.
I bought Fantastic Four #4....
Image


and had to hustle to get the previous three issues.... in 1961-62 to "Make mine Marvel."

If you like what's being done-- today--- great for you. And I don't mean that in a snide way. I mean it sincerely.
I just disagree.

I am not advocating wholesale changes, but judicious review of what works and what is frankly probably too corny for today's market.

I'm NOT advocating wholesale changes either, and I'm not advocating for "what is frankly probably too corny for today's market,".
World War II was not "corny". Brubaker made World War II rather captivating with CAPTAIN AMERICA/WINTER SOLDIER. Read it if you haven't.
The World War, THE SHIELD and the other heroes don't HAVE TO BE corny. You can write it for a contemporary audience and it can be great. THAT'S what formed these heroes. The Shield came before Captain America(As we all know) ...and CAPTAIN AMERICA HAS TWO MOVIES.... AND A THIRD ON THE WAY...and you're telling me it's "corny".

AND ....CAPTAIN AMERICA has ACTION FIGURES...he's got merchandise.... his shield ...mask... and a boat load of other merchandise that's made a lot of money for Marvel/Disney Corp.

THE SHIELD??? One measly action figure that has very little "action" to it. (I got it. I know.)

I disagree with you. (At last.) It's "corny" to believe in America, freedom, liberty, courage, and justice.???? That's corny.???

THAT'S AT THE "CORE" OF THE SHIELD!! (And at the core of THE WIZARD, Blane Whitney, too. The historical America.)

Did you look at my "spinal narrative" over on the Fan Fiction site. What do you think of that.?? Corny??

THE BLACK HOOD?? A detective that sold in paperback. Could be every bit as good as you-know-Who.!! (bat-symbol.)
STEEL STERLING?? Handled right, every bit as good as the red-s who really can't find himself in comics or movies.
He's the perfect hero. Blond, good-looking, man of steel-- with a little "zip" to him.

THE WIZARD!!? Behind him historic American lineage. Mental powers if handled right could be a really great hero.
Go to the movies and see: AMERICA: IMAGINE A WORLD WITHOUT HER. And report back to me.



Basically to keep that link to WWII you may as well keep the past continuity. I would argue either proposition is unnecessary baggage. DC has had two attempts with these characters, and both have been more successful than Archie's two attempts in the past 30 years, in terms of discrete issues published. The Archie books maintained the past history, the DC books did not.

I would argue that their link to WWII and past continuity IS NOT "unnecessary baggage". It is the "VERY CORE" of who these heroes are.

If you measure "success" as in who is still around and lasting: I think you're wrong. Did you read THE NEW CRUSADERS?? HEY, the "MIGHTY CRUSADERS" ARE STILL AROUND. They are alive and kicking'!!

And the DC created heroes?? Where the heck are they ??? R-i-i-i-i-ght!!

DC pumped far more talent into both of those attempts than Archie did. And, personally, I think that first issue of The MIGHTY CRUSADERS was a better issue than any issue of the any and all DC issues THEY produced.

Image

I would like to see the money spent by each company: both DC and Archie on those attempts. My hunch is that DC spent far more money than Archie did.
And I got a real "rush" seeing The Pvt.Strong-SHIELD team up with THE FLY, FLY GIRL, and THE JAGUAR which I had begged Archie to do 20 years earlier. It full-filled one of my fan-boy wants greatly.


I personally didn't like any of DC's attempts. Whether it was THE SHIELD'S costume or the "Web" crap... or even the way THE FLY was drawn (although I did like the artist).... it wasn't like the Simon and Kirby FLY.

Did you READ the crap DC wrote. That IMPACT "THE CRUSADERS" FIRST ISSUE SPECTACULAR! was almost unreadable.
The Black Hood.... oh, come on now.!! That Web crap!! The Fly just looked goofy on the cover. Firefly??
The art... exciting??? I think NOT!! FIREBALL's costume and character??? No-No-No!!
Compare the art in that book to the Buckler's MIGHTY CRUSADERS #1!! I say Buckler's art was FAR better.
Scott Hanna's finishes didn't strike me as very professional. Of Course, now he's a big name and nobody says anything about his art. (just kidding.)

And the villain: KALATHAR.... FREE AFTER ALL THESE YEARS!!! MY aching rear end.!! "Blast From the Past"?? (DC tried to give them soooommme kind of back story to stand on.... but it was one of the worst Origins I've ever had the opportunity to read.

LEGEND OF THE SHIELD...with art by Grant Miehm.... another artist who sky-rocketed to the top of the favorite artists pile.... Shield's costume sucked.....

The Fly.... pencilled by Al Bigley...another ....OK. I quit. But Mike Parobeck's Fly wasn't so bad but the tone was too light-hearted for the rest of the characters.

IMPACT'S ...The BLACK HOOD.... CRAZY, MAN, CRAZY. Although Burchett had his moments.

Remember Chuck Wojtkiewicz's The JAGUAR??? SUCK-A-RENO.!!

Remember the Gil Kane cover of THE WEB... Which lead into ... The Coming of The Crusaders.??? What a mess the whole business was.

They were all new heroes that stood on nothing ....and were going "nowhere."

THEY weren't more successful in my book. (Yeah, maybe sales wise....but come on....)

And YOU don't have to make the case of how bad....I mean really BAD.... The MIGHTY CRUSADERS were in the mid-'60's. If you stand near those comics you can still smell the stink.
But at least we knew where they were coming from.

Buckler's first issues were promising .... and, hey, I was writing in asking for better writers and artists in the sixties....and I can't be blamed if they didn't listen to me. I tried.

I wrote them to have Rosenberg team-up THE JAGUAR, THE FLY, FLY GIRL, ... THE SHIELD and THE BLACK HOOD .... which would have been visually interesting....but we'll never know now about the writing.... or the art. All we have is this: Image


And still we fans of THE MIGHTY CRUSADERS dream of better days ahead. Exciting adventures ....with our GREAT HEROES!! WE WAIT.... AND WE DREAM.!!

Image

Post Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:29 pm
leonmallett User avatar
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I have read every !mpact issues, and every DC-Red Circle issue (as well as all the 80's Archie Mighty Crusaders and related books). And you know what? I like a lot of the DC stuff, and there is stuff they did that I felt worked (Black hood and the fly from !mpact; and as much as you hated the Web by DC-Red Circle, I thought it was novel and fresh, and interesting).

So we are not going to agree, which is fine. Being slavish to legacy is just adding another burden IMHO, and we have to agree to disagree about that which is fine. ,!-- s:) -->:),!-- s:) -->
Discovering new superhero worlds through the MLJ/Mighty Crusaders legacy...

Post Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:10 am
captainzero User avatar
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leonmallett wrote:
I have read every !mpact issues, and every DC-Red Circle issue (as well as all the 80's Archie Mighty Crusaders and related books). And you know what? I like a lot of the DC stuff, and there is stuff they did that I felt worked (Black hood and the fly from !mpact; and as much as you hated the Web by DC-Red Circle, I thought it was novel and fresh, and interesting).

So we are not going to agree, which is fine. Being slavish to legacy is just adding another burden IMHO, and we have to agree to disagree about that which is fine. ,!-- s:) -->:),!-- s:) -->


That's ok with me that we disagree. I think we both want the same thing. A better Mighty Crusaders.
But you didn't really answer a couple of my questions: Did you read my fan fiction?? and what did you think?
Did you read Brubaker's Captain America/Winter Soldier.??

Being "slavish" to Legacy is a bit harsh.... but when a hero (or heroes) are created in a period that forms them--- and then you CUT them off from the very ground that nourishes them, .... I don't think it needs to be "slavish". It makes them "real". "Real" with "real motivation" and reasons why they are who they are.

But knowing Archie, ---- I think you may get your wish. They will try to cut them off from their very life source that feeds them and start them again without the WWII references. Then, when they fail again, they'll wonder why??
A thin broth indeed.

Maybe they will just fight criminals of today. OK.
Or maybe they'll fight the Islamic caliphate that threatens America today.... but they won't. Everyone's afraid to offend those who threaten our demise.

Did you see AMERICA: IMAGINE A WORLD WITHOUT HER.??

DC's Impact heroes are floating away in the dim mists of comic book time... to (hopefully, in my case) never return to the racks again. I'm just hoping Archie doesn't do the same to the MLJ heroes.... and send them into the same mist.

Post Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:03 am
leonmallett User avatar
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captainzero wrote:
leonmallett wrote:
I have read every !mpact issues, and every DC-Red Circle issue (as well as all the 80's Archie Mighty Crusaders and related books). And you know what? I like a lot of the DC stuff, and there is stuff they did that I felt worked (Black hood and the fly from !mpact; and as much as you hated the Web by DC-Red Circle, I thought it was novel and fresh, and interesting).

So we are not going to agree, which is fine. Being slavish to legacy is just adding another burden IMHO, and we have to agree to disagree about that which is fine. ,!-- s:) -->:),!-- s:) -->


That's ok with me that we disagree. I think we both want the same thing. A better Mighty Crusaders.


<insert imaginary thumbs up emote here!>


But you didn't really answer a couple of my questions: Did you read my fan fiction?? and what did you think?


I don't read any fan-fiction, for any characters. Just not my bag sorry to say.


Did you read Brubaker's Captain America/Winter Soldier.??


I did. And while Bucky's history was intrinsic to that story, the Archie heroes just don't have the publishing weight of history that Cap alone does.

Being "slavish" to Legacy is a bit harsh.... but when a hero (or heroes) are created in a period that forms them--- and then you CUT them off from the very ground that nourishes them, .... I don't think it needs to be "slavish". It makes them "real". "Real" with "real motivation" and reasons why they are who they are.


I am not saying you are being slavish, I am saying for the prospective creators to slavishly adhere to a spotty past continuity that in some parts does not make sense, and may simply be meaningless or worse confusing for potential 'new readers' would in my opinion be retrograde step.

If a character does not work in a simple high concept sell, something is amiss.

If the loss associated with retaining WWII connections is greater than the gains of dropping them, then that is a problem.

Take The Web. Retain the 1940's association and naturally his son acquired the costume in the 1960's. 45 years later and who should be wearing that costume? A 90-100 original? A 65-75 year old second generation? Introduce a third generation version (bypassing the New Crusaders version)? It gets ridiculous. Repeat that with a couple of dozen heroes less those whose powers explain longevity.

Find a way to explain some kind of time jump or slowed aging? Then a creator is jumping through hoops to satisfy something that holds limited relevance for telling the majority of stories set today.

But knowing Archie, ---- I think you may get your wish. They will try to cut them off from their very life source that feeds them and start them again without the WWII references. Then, when they fail again, they'll wonder why??
A thin broth indeed.


It is hardly a sustaining life-force though.

Maybe they will just fight criminals of today. OK.
Or maybe they'll fight the Islamic caliphate that threatens America today.... but they won't. Everyone's afraid to offend those who threaten our demise.


Islamic caliphate threatening America? Okay, our politics are clearly several thousand miles apart (literally and figuratively).

Did you see AMERICA: IMAGINE A WORLD WITHOUT HER.??


No, why should it matter when it comes to comic book heroes?

DC's Impact heroes are floating away in the dim mists of comic book time... to (hopefully, in my case) never return to the racks again. I'm just hoping Archie doesn't do the same to the MLJ heroes.... and send them into the same mists.


!mpact is gone. DC's Red Circle is gone. I am fine that both are done, their time has gone.

But in all honesty, I think that the time of the MLJ heroes in the form they were conceived is done. How broadly relatable are they as they were, except to a select few? This is not 1940, 1959 or 1961. Times are much changed, and maybe the heroes of Archie need to reflect that better. Even enduring heroes like Batman, Superman, Cap, Spider-man, Daredevil, etc have undergone change with time. It happens. Except that when you are being published every month for 50-75 years often those changes are incremental among the whole, and so may not appear so drastic over time.

If Archie keeps the characters pretty much as-was, I will still buy the books. I just do not think they will have much chance or surviving long. Whereas updating the characters with tweaks *could* (I am not saying *will) be the chance they have to make it.
Discovering new superhero worlds through the MLJ/Mighty Crusaders legacy...

Post Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:37 pm
captainzero User avatar
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Yeah, you're right. We are miles apart.
When one terrorist threatens:"See you in New York...." he doesn't mean he's coming as a tourist. ... and "Death to America".... "Death to the Great Satan"...
to you, these are not threats but quaint greetings of "Hi, hello. Nice to meet ya."

911 is just a telephone number to you.

Right now, this very day....hundreds of missiles have assaulted our lone ally in the middle east.... as Hama's tries it's best to destroy this ally. Today it was a drone attack. To you they are just sending love letters and flowers.

If you won't even look at my example .... on the fan site... with more pictures than words.... when you won't see a movie to show you the tie-in to historic lineage ...and it's connection to THE WIZARD.... you, like many of your kind just put on blinders and you make your own opinions truth of your own making.

No use talking to you. You will not look at evidence of any sort.

I still disagree with you. I still say: CAPTAIN AMERICA... 3 MOVIES and a boatload of money.... and the Shield, who could have been just as good a "patriot", hero and symbol.... 1 action figure.
You can't remove his history from the fabric of his costume. Look at those DC attempts. With his history, he just didn't work.

Others have brought Golden Age heroes to the present. From the Twelve.... to Project SuperPowers... to Terra Obscura, S.M.A.S.H. OF TWO WORLDS, to others.
I, myself, can think of two or three ways to move the Golden Age heroes into the present without them losing their LEGACY ....AND the ground they stand on.

I guess I will no longer try to make a point when you have both hands over your eyes.

Let's hope we get the MLJ/ Red Circle heroes ....the Dark Circle heroes that we can enjoy reading and are successful.
At least we can agree on that. (both thumbs up.)

Post Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:40 pm
leonmallett User avatar
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captainzero wrote:
Yeah, you're right. We are miles apart.
When one terrorist threatens:"See you in New York...." he doesn't mean he's coming as a tourist. ... and "Death to America".... "Death to the Great Satan"...
to you, these are not threats but quaint greetings of "Hi, hello. Nice to meet ya."

911 is just a telephone number to you.

Right now, this very day....hundreds of missiles have assaulted our lone ally in the middle east.... as Hama's tries it's best to destroy this ally. Today it was a drone attack. To you they are just sending love letters and flowers.

If you won't even look at my example .... on the fan site... with more pictures than words.... when you won't see a movie to show you the tie-in to historic lineage ...and it's connection to THE WIZARD.... you, like many of your kind just put on blinders and you make your own opinions truth of your own making.

No use talking to you. You will not look at evidence of any sort.

I still disagree with you. I still say: CAPTAIN AMERICA... 3 MOVIES and a boatload of money.... and the Shield, who could have been just as good a "patriot", hero and symbol.... 1 action figure.
You can't remove his history from the fabric of his costume. Look at those DC attempts. With his history, he just didn't work.

Others have brought Golden Age heroes to the present. From the Twelve.... to Project SuperPowers... to Terra Obscura, S.M.A.S.H. OF TWO WORLDS, to others.
I, myself, can think of two or three ways to move the Golden Age heroes into the present without them losing their LEGACY ....AND the ground they stand on.

I guess I will no longer try to make a point when you have both hands over your eyes.

Let's hope we get the MLJ/ Red Circle heroes ....the Dark Circle heroes that we can enjoy reading and are successful.
At least we can agree on that. (both thumbs up.)


I disagree which means I am blind to your point? No, it simply means I disagree.

Question: what the heck does your brand of politics have to do with what Archie may or may not do with the characters? Or my politics for that matter?

I am not American. You make characterization about me without knowing me. Nice. And really, little more than a rant. You know nothing of my politics yet you attack me for them? When this thread was and should be about the Dark Circle relaunch.

Finally, setting aside your randomly inserted political polemic, consider those comic book examples you cited:
The Twelve; 13 issues. Marvel clearly did not feel it had legs. They could have published more without JMS (as the one-shot was done without him), but 13 issues is not sustained success.

Project Superpowers: a line of books I really enjoyed. Yet 42 issues in 5 years equates to roughly 8 issues a year. Again, far from a sure success.

Terra Obscura: 12 issues and now gone and largely forgotten; again, that is not sustained success.

What they have in common is they are no longer being published (although Project Superpowers is being rebooted, suggesting DE feel there were flaws with the concept), and collectively, guess what, they published fewer issues than !mpact.

Arguably those 3 examples are not great models for Archie/Dark Circle to follow.
Discovering new superhero worlds through the MLJ/Mighty Crusaders legacy...

Post Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:54 pm
captainzero User avatar
Gem Mint
Gem Mint

Posts: 435
I disagree which means I am blind to your point? No, it simply means I disagree.

No, you miss the point. I'm not saying you're blind to my point. Only that you won't even look at what I wrote when I asked you if you thought "that was corny." You would not even look ...even though my "Fan Fiction" is more pictures than words.
When you won't make three clicks on your computer.... I begin to wonder if you want to understand my point or just argue.

Question: what the heck does your brand of politics have to do with what Archie may or may not do with the characters? Or my politics for that matter?

It was YOU who questioned my mentioning "threats from terrorists". I was just making the point that the U.S. was being threatened but I doubted Archie comics would get into contemporary political stuff when it came to the establishment of a Caliphate and their threats towards the United States.
Look at THE SHIELD and THE WIZARD'S early books. THEY were out front in the fight against the German Nazis, the Imperial Japanese and the U.S.S.R. (Russia)

In some of those books the heroes were out front in those turbulent times fighting against the Axis Powers. Like in 1939-1940. That was almost 2 years before the U.S. went to war. To me, that's something MLJ should have been very proud of.

Today, we can hardly expect them to speak out against the Muslims who are trying to form a Caliphate in the Middle East where they can prepare attacks on the U.S. and Israel. (And maybe on Europe.) They are not that brave.

Didn't you say: Islamic caliphate threatening America? Okay, our politics are clearly several thousand miles apart (literally and figuratively). ?????

I took what you said to mean that you didn't think that Islamic forces operating in Iraq, Syria, and that area in the Middle East -- wasn't trying to form a Caliphate... An Islamic state... to prepare attacks against the West. I thought I was just giving examples of the point I was making.

You're right. At that moment I didn't realize you were not an American. So, I think I should have cut you more slack because maybe you're not getting the same "news-feed" we are getting here in the States.
Somewhere in the mix, I was, in my own mind, comparing MLJ heroes taking on Nazis in a time when most Americans did not want to get involved in the War. They didn't want to get involved in another bloody War in Europe after WWI.

(The heroes were published and fighting in 1939-1941. It wasn't until December 7, 1941... After they had been attacked, did Americans decide they wanted to go to war. ) (It's covered in my "Fan Fiction" which you will not look at.)
That's what I meant by "putting your hands over your eyes". Not that you didn't agree with my point, it's that you won't even look at the point.

( You have a tendency to misunderstand me. Now, it's understandable ...because you're from the U.K. ...and probably because you're trying to be disagreeable with your eyes covered.)

To me, the MLJ heroes were "out front" in fighting the Nazis ...when most of America was against going to war. I don't think they (contemporary Archie heroes) have the same kind of courage when it comes to the Militant Islamic armies that want the destruction of the West...and the U.S., .... as those heroes of a previous time.


I am not American. You make characterization about me without knowing me. Nice. And really, little more than a rant. You know nothing of my politics yet you attack me for them? When this thread was and should be about the Dark Circle relaunch.
Yes, you are right. You are not an American and I could not understand what you were saying. And you're right again, I don't know your politics. My post wasn't as much of a political rant as much as an "ear slapping" to an ignorant American that doesn't think there is an Militant Islamic army that threatens the U.S.

I was only giving examples backing up what I said. Hardly a "rant". To me, it all ties together. The Shield being a symbol of America..... created at a time when he was "needed". What were those 4 stars on his chest all about. ??? I'll remind you: Truth. Justice. Patriotism. and Courage.
What more could you ask from a hero???

Now, I don't think Archie is as courageous or patriotic as were the previous people who established the line (MLJ). Rather than fighting the evil of the Militant Islamic Caliphate they would much rather fight global warming and fight for homosexuality. (Their main character: Archie gets shot and killed saving a homosexual. Good enough point to be heroic but not the same as fighting Militant Islamic evil.)
Now I'm sure you can mis- understand me with that line.


You dismissed the Twelve, PSP, and the others about their lack of success. I was only giving examples of how others have brought heroes from Golden Age heroes into the Present. Re-read it. That was the only point. That it can be done. The Shield can keep his World War II Legacy and be brought to the Present. (And, like CAPTAIN AMERICA/WINTER SOLDIER by Brubaker, that grounding can make him a far more interesting and a far more "in-depth" character.)

I agree with you that they weren't very successful .... but I was defending the point that heroes from the Golden Age CAN BE BROUGHT into the present.... and hopefully, Archie could do it better... and, hopefully, THE SHIELD and THE WIZARD would be far more successful.

My point being that the very fabric of their being was established in a time when America had to give her best. A challenging time.... that these heroes emerged from. Created...formed.... when America needed heroes....even if they were fictional. And that gave those heroes tremendous "weight" ...gravitas. Maybe Americans have forgotten that war...but maybe they should be reminded. And it would give The Shield (and The Wizard) some "real" depth.

The Shield, without his Legacy of World War II, fails. See the DC attempts. He stands on very little. I'm saying he should stand on his on Legacy of the War. But I don't think you should be too worry about my suggestions.

Archie hasn't listened to me for 50-some years. The only thing where they did what I wrote in about was when I supported the suggestion that they form the Mighty Crusaders. I'm hardly worth the time we're spending here. It's like my "Fan Fiction" ....spinal narrative. They, like you, won't even see it.

So, ...you dismissed my examples for the wrong reasons: I said others have brought the Golden age heroes into the present.... and you dismissed them because the examples weren't successful.

AND what example do YOU suggest?? And I think I can give you a better one. ....AND I have: CAPTAIN AMERICA.!! BOTH the Shield and Captain America were created in a time when America needed them. The SHIELD being the first. My example is Captain America.

( I think you just want to argue with me rather than agree to anything I have to say. You want to win some kind of argument.... with your hands over your eyes and ...doing your best to "misunderstand" what I'm saying.)

Count up the issues and years CAPTAIN AMERICA has been on the stands.... and out of the "ice". What are the numbers on that.??

And your example is.....


ANOTHER reason THE SHIELD should be tied to the War: Some da@n fool flew a plane over Brooklyn the other day with a Swastika flag flying behind it. (They know that Brooklyn has the largest number of Jews in any city in the U.S.)

NOW, to me that's "way wrong". If I could get my hands on the guy behind that ....I'd plant that flag right up his "you-know-what."
Maybe The Shield's return could have him fighting, not only the Nazis of the War.... but also a renewed attempt at Nazis fascism of today.

It would be great P.R. for Archie comics ....and it would be the right thing to do. The Shield would have "cred".

Oh, and just so you know I agree with you:".... but the strength of the concepts should be what is at their core, not what time period they are/were rooted in. " I agree. But their time period IS at their core. At the core of their creation. Hopefully they will find a way to make them work.... however they do them.

Post Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:20 pm
Captain Sprocket User avatar
MightyCrusaders.net
MightyCrusaders.net

Posts: 433
The Captain doesn't want to referee (or censor) any posts, so The Captain will attempt to bring it down a notch.

ITCHO,* the biggest problem with comics today is continuity. It was a great idea 50 years ago when DC (& the Archie Adventure Series) were cranking out three 7- or 8-page stories in each issue. (NOTE: DC would occasionally print a "3-part novel" which took up the whole book.) Marvel, Stan, Jack, et al, turned the industry upside down with one story filling the 22-24 pages & continuing the plot (or sub-plot) into the next month (& the next & the next...). Whatta concept!

Now every comics company is bogged down with character histories & events. Things like "Crisis" or the Ultimate line are done to either clean things up or free creators from the minutia. Sh*tty reboots abound. (Superman wears armor & has no red trunks. Jor El travels on a flying dragon. OOPS - MOS movie reference! Maybe The Captain shouldn't open up that can of worms!) Publishers tout "this is a great place for new readers to jump on board," so those folks will be "in the know."

UGH!

Be aware The Captain stays in touch with the industry news (& this message board). But The Captain lost a lot of interest in comics several years ago. In the MLJ world, "New Crusaders" was just another disappointment. "Dark Tomorrow" looked promising, especially the variant cover, but now that will never see print.

Image

So just what is The Captain's point?

Do short story arcs. Respect the character elements. Let creators be creative. Think "Elseworlds" or the DC "Imaginary Story" concept. Bottom line: write quality, entertaining comics. Gees, The Fly's powers were always changing (although The Captain thinks that was more of the writers of the 60s crankin' 'em out & meeting deadline without much thought or care). It's taking the folklore of the characters & adding each individuals or teams spin on it. (The movie "Maleficent" is a good example of that idea.)

We'll see how things turn out with the Dark Circle project, but Archie has already made 2 grievous errors: It's the second brand to use the word "dark" in its name & its initials are "D C" (OK, maybe "D C C").

The Captain says the great passion for the product Captain Zero & Leon Mallett display is evident. The Captain is glad both are still checking in to the MCMB. Now if Archie can find 999,998 more like them, this new line may have a chance!


*ITCHO = In The Captain's Humble Opinion

Post Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:49 pm
captainzero User avatar
Gem Mint
Gem Mint

Posts: 435
Captain Sprocket wrote:
The Captain doesn't want to referee (or censor) any posts, so The Captain will attempt to bring it down a notch.

ITCHO,* the biggest problem with comics today is continuity. It was a great idea 50 years ago when DC (& the Archie Adventure Series) were cranking out three 7- or 8-page stories in each issue. (NOTE: DC would occasionally print a "3-part novel" which took up the whole book.) Marvel, Stan, Jack, et al, turned the industry upside down with one story filling the 22-24 pages & continuing the plot (or sub-plot) into the next month (& the next & the next...). Whatta concept!

Now every comics company is bogged down with character histories & events. Things like "Crisis" or the Ultimate line are done to either clean things up or free creators from the minutia. Sh*tty reboots abound. (Superman wears armor & has no red trunks. Jor El travels on a flying dragon. OOPS - MOS movie reference! Maybe The Captain shouldn't open up that can of worms!) Publishers tout "this is a great place for new readers to jump on board," so those folks will be "in the know."

UGH!

Be aware The Captain stays in touch with the industry news (& this message board). But The Captain lost a lot of interest in comics several years ago. In the MLJ world, "New Crusaders" was just another disappointment. "Dark Tomorrow" looked promising, especially the variant cover, but now that will never see print.

Image

So just what is The Captain's point?

Do short story arcs. Respect the character elements. Let creators be creative. Think "Elseworlds" or the DC "Imaginary Story" concept. Bottom line: write quality, entertaining comics. Gees, The Fly's powers were always changing (although The Captain thinks that was more of the writers of the 60s crankin' 'em out & meeting deadline without much thought or care). It's taking the folklore of the characters & adding each individuals or teams spin on it. (The movie "Maleficent" is a good example of that idea.)

We'll see how things turn out with the Dark Circle project, but Archie has already made 2 grievous errors: It's the second brand to use the word "dark" in its name & its initials are "D C" (OK, maybe "D C C").

The Captain says the great passion for the product Captain Zero & Leon Mallett display is evident. The Captain is glad both are still checking in to the MCMB. Now if Archie can find 999,998 more like them, this new line may have a chance!


*ITCHO = In The Captain's Humble Opinion

The Captain puts a brave face on it. (I've always liked The Captain.) .... but now it looks like all is for naught.(?)

Permission to abandon ship, Cap.!!

This was not the world I had signed on to support.

I've been loyal since '59.... and I ain't gonna takes no more.!!
They've made The Shield a woman.... and all those heroes from the '40's is gone. Myself, as well.
I bid all adieu.

And I shall leave you all with these:

A Simon and Kirby SHIELD-WIZARD cover.
Image

A final picture of THE SHIELD:
Image


A picture of The Wizard --who I had hoped to rehabilitate.
Image

And one of their first meetings:
Image

So, .... with every beginning ....an ending. So be it.
Take care, Captain.

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