Board index The Mighty Crusaders Network MIGHTY CRUSADERS MESSAGE BOARD! New Crusaders - speculation and wishlisting:

New Crusaders - speculation and wishlisting:

This is the Message Board for the Mighty Crusaders Network!

Moderators: Captain Sprocket, leonmallett, Rik


leonmallett User avatar
MightyCrusaders.net
MightyCrusaders.net

Posts: 523
Location: West Midlands, UK
I am really excited about this development. With DC's new direction, I am buying less DC books. At Marvel I am basically down to their Ultimate titles and Avengers/New Avengers/Young Avengers. It looks like the BOOM-Stan Lee books are ending, and Dark Horse's Gold Key line of books is going on hiatus. Basically I will be reading a lot less new comics than I used to, and so I am left looking forwards to stuff for next year, and of all the upcoming titles/launches/re-launches, one of the two most exciting for me is the New Crusaders.

I guess I am expecting around 6 pages per week. That makes me think there will be room for variation in story length and the number of characters featured. I would love to see the whole potential roster seen (even if only in cameo) within the first year.

I guess the line-up will be:
The Shield (kind of like the traditional Archie/Red circle Shield)
Comet
The Web - looks more wiry/acrobatic;
Jaguar - hopefully sans rocket belt!
Fly Girl - could be a fairly traditional representation, although how her origin is told may need some changes (no Fly; maybe no Turan/Fly-people?)
Inferno - looks more like a post-silver age energy projecting type; good call
Steel Sterling - it would be cool to me if it was the original, still 'forever young' as he seemed in the 80's

Wish-listing:
I hope we can see some more characters sooner rather than later; in that I think many of the non-powered types would be cool (great code-names bound here in my opinion), but they may need some Unique Selling points. Talking about the Fox, Black Jack, Black Hood etc here. Mr Justice remains a cool name and could be a great addition if handled right, but really would need an updated visual. I liked the DC look, but it isn't the only way of course.


What would other board members like to see?
Discovering new superhero worlds through the MLJ/Mighty Crusaders legacy...

leonmallett User avatar
MightyCrusaders.net
MightyCrusaders.net

Posts: 523
Location: West Midlands, UK
Digging around dredged up this CBR article:

,!-- m -->, class="postlink" ,="http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=34874">http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=34874,!-- m -->

The teaser image reveals our core team: The Shield, The Web, Fireball, Steel Sterling, Fly-Girl, The Comet and The Jaguar. I'm assuming that even though these are the first kids we'll meet, other heroes like the Fox or the Black Hood are out there, too.

Pellerito: Absolutely. And all of the personalities and quirks of those characters that have existed play into the way we're handling these new characters. So for example, Paul Patten was the Fox, and he was a photo journalist. We're playing up that angle of him and how it revolves into what happens next. Each one of these heroes has a great, rich back story. There's an incredible legacy, and we're bringing it forward. This isn't a reboot. I don't want to knock those other guys because they're doing some fun stuff, but this approach keeps everything the fans -- whether they've been around for 70 years, ten years or five minutes -- loves. This makes it so the series can still be theirs. Our approach is "Comics for Everyone."
Discovering new superhero worlds through the MLJ/Mighty Crusaders legacy...


Posts: 6
it would be great if part of the new team's training included joe sharing "lost tales of the crusaders..."

leonmallett User avatar
MightyCrusaders.net
MightyCrusaders.net

Posts: 523
Location: West Midlands, UK
knightheart wrote:
it would be great if part of the new team's training included joe sharing "lost tales of the crusaders..."


That would be cool, and would be a ready way to showcase many other members of the MLJ/Mighty Crusaders/Red Circle cast.
Discovering new superhero worlds through the MLJ/Mighty Crusaders legacy...


Posts: 23
My wish-listing would have storyline where the New Crusaders meet the endless imaginative "worlds" of the MLJ universe/history:

Meet characters like the Hangman, Black Hood, Black Jack, the Press Guardian, and others that would show the New Crusaders that you not necessarily need powers to fight for a cause!

Magical characters like Mr. Justice, Bob Phantom, Red Rube, Sabrina the Teenage Witch, Danny in Wonderland, Fu Chang: International Detective, and others (villians too like Madame Satan, the Druid, the Dream Demon, etc) would add some interesting storylines.

Time travel to meet Doc Strong or the Green Falcon!! Space travel to meet the Queen of Diamond and the Rocket! Respect the world's true heroes like the military (War Eagles, Captain Valor, Sgt Boyle, Corporal Collins, etc), like the police (Silver Fox, Bently of Scotland Yard, etc), and like the fire/rescue (original Fireball was an arson investigator). I would even love to see Rang-a-tang brought in as a pet to one of the New Crusaders (If Rin-Tin-Tin can have a dog breeding ranch.....).

Archie/MLJ characters are varied and creative! I am excited about the potential where the storylines can go!

Calum User avatar
Gem Mint
Gem Mint

Posts: 258
Location: Edinburgh

some of this stuff is really close to the direction New Crusaders seems to be taking. So glad they are drawing on the rich back history they have for these heroes but i am REALLY upset that they have lost Lance Strong (though they ruthlessly killed him before he really got much of a chance) and The Fly (ok, The Fly has had the lions share of stories over the years compared with most of the rest, he even beats The Shield in page count, not counting the golden age) but it breaks my heart to see flashback panels in New Crusaders with Fly-Girl, Jaguar, Black Hood, Fox et al but no Fly.

Is there a way Archie could resolve this and actually include The Fly in the same way as the other historical characters? I don't know anything about all that stuff to be honest.
PS: Hey! Check out my music at http://www.calumsmusic.com and fill your ears with happiness!

captainzero User avatar
Gem Mint
Gem Mint

Posts: 435
Calum wrote:
some of this stuff is really close to the direction New Crusaders seems to be taking. So glad they are drawing on the rich back history they have for these heroes but i am REALLY upset that they have lost Lance Strong (though they ruthlessly killed him before he really got much of a chance) and The Fly (ok, The Fly has had the lions share of stories over the years compared with most of the rest, he even beats The Shield in page count, not counting the golden age) but it breaks my heart to see flashback panels in New Crusaders with Fly-Girl, Jaguar, Black Hood, Fox et al but no Fly.

Is there a way Archie could resolve this and actually include The Fly in the same way as the other historical characters? I don't know anything about all that stuff to be honest.


I'm REALLY GLAD they are drawing on the rich back-history of these heroes, too.
Ian, Paul, and anyone "in the know" is NOT talking about The Pvt. Strong-Shield or THE FLY. I've been asking questions about their absence, also.

They are not saying anything "at this time" about how they are going to handle our two missing Crusaders.

Especially The Fly. The Fly and The Spider were "key" to the founding of THE MIGHTY CRUSADERS.... and Ian and the gang are just not saying anything.

I almost get the feeling that the Strong-Shield, The Fly, and The Spider are no longer wanted at Red Circle.
It's an interesting dilemma. I don't think "Spider Spry" is the same Spider as the later one. Spry's body is misshapen and the "later" Spider that's dressed like Lex Luthor does not have the same physique as Spry.

We just may have to wait to see how they will handle it all.

My "speculation and wish-listing" is extravagant.

I speculate that we will have six more issues of THE NEW CRUSADERS: DARK TOMORROW!! which will be a great read and really, really fun.
And I speculate that we will get a second title:....about THE LOST CRUSADE. That will re-tell and tie-up loose ends that have been left unanswered for too long. Maybe they will call the book: The RETURN OF THE MIGHTY CRUSADERS!! .....AND boy, will I be excited about that.!! It will be really fun to see the Mighty Crusaders return.!!

As for "wish-listing"....that's where it gets a little extravagant.

If we have THE NEW CRUSADERS....AND
iF we have THE RETURN OF THE MIGHTY CRUSADERS...tying up the loose ends of the '80's..

I would really like to see:
A book with a Golden Age setting that would re-tell the beginnings of the MLJ heroes. I would loved to see Golden Age stories told with today's sensibilities ...that lays "the Foundation" for the RED CIRCLE Universe....

Then, I would like to see more Golden Age adventures in a SHIELD-WIZARD book...
and a couple of other books like: JACKPOT, THE SHIELD, ZIP.... just to tell more about the basis of each of the Golden Age heroes.

Then, re-tell the MIGHTY CRUSADERS STORY in the 1960's and the 1980's.....

THEN, move everything and everybody into today's world.....so, that by reading all the titles ---we would see the MLJ heroes move from the Golden Age('40's) to the Silver Age('60's) to the '80's..whatever..Bronze Age....to the PRESENT.

JUST A MLJ EPIC in story-telling that has cohesion, epic scope, and tells a really fun ride.

EXTRAVAGANT, yes!! But there is "a method to my "madness"!!

A complete and cohesive RED CIRCLE UNIVERSE without re-boot ....and all!!!
We could almost chart every hero and his background from the Golden Age to the Present time.... and we could go on from there. (Ah,....go on from the present to the future!!.)

Sure, it would take some EPIC plotting .... but once the "main structure" is there, there can be a lot of room for creative story-telling.
All the RC guys would have to do is retell (basically) everything with today's sensibilities.

The main stuff is there. Kind of consider it a first draft. Just consider the rest a re-write.!!
Am I about the only guy on this site??
Am I having a seizure?? Am I hospitalized?? Does anyone have ANY idea what I'm talking about??

Alan Moore wanted a dead hero to start his Watchmen series. Maybe it's THE FLY that was killed. Maybe he's dead!! (I want to think that the Anti-Fly league whacked him!! A possibility since we've never seen them together.....oh, well. ....never mind.)

Let me add: please don't move too fast. Go just fast enough. You guys know better how to do this than ...me, for sure.

Calum User avatar
Gem Mint
Gem Mint

Posts: 258
Location: Edinburgh

To me it looks like they're never going to explain how ALL their characters stayed 30 or 50 years younger than they should have.

The original Shield, okay, he fell through a time warp or something, The Comet, okay he's been changed by being killed and becoming an alien and all that, but the rest? How is The Web still as young in 2012 as he was in 1940? Or Kim Brand staying pretty much as young as she was in the 80s (i assume she was allowed to age some from the 60s to the 80s but she'd still be about 70 by now). etc etc etc.

But i don't think they will bother to explain that now these heroes are all dead. Sloppy, the only saving grace is at least they're not being as sloppy as DC with their unexplained bi-annual reboots.
PS: Hey! Check out my music at http://www.calumsmusic.com and fill your ears with happiness!

captainzero User avatar
Gem Mint
Gem Mint

Posts: 435
Calum wrote:
To me it looks like they're never going to explain how ALL their characters stayed 30 or 50 years younger than they should have.

The original Shield, okay, he fell through a time warp or something, The Comet, okay he's been changed by being killed and becoming an alien and all that, but the rest? How is The Web still as young in 2012 as he was in 1940? Or Kim Brand staying pretty much as young as she was in the 80s (i assume she was allowed to age some from the 60s to the 80s but she'd still be about 70 by now). etc etc etc.

But i don't think they will bother to explain that now these heroes are all dead. Sloppy, the only saving grace is at least they're not being as sloppy as DC with their unexplained bi-annual reboots.


Yes, I'm with you, Calum. I hated that DC did the re-boots, too. I now buy very few DC comics because of it. (I'm buying The Whistling Skull, and Before Watchmen. Not much else.)
I'm from their "old world".....
that they threw away. (And me with it.)

I love the fact that RED CIRCLE is keeping their rich LEGACY intact.

The time factor doesn't bother me. I'm ok with "compressed time"!!
They (Paul, Ian, and the brain trust) can offer solutions, but I would be fine with the heroes just a little older than those heroes were in the 1980's.

Red Circle can say time moves slower than "our" time does....
(Like any successful comicbook character...they don't really age at the same speed or rate that we do.

For a great many years, Peter Parker didn't age very much, --neither did Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne, Reed Richards, Tony Stark, or Bruce Banner, even Archie and the gang... ...and on and on and on. Comic book heroes aren't real people. [Shocker!!] And they can age at any rate their writers and editors say they age.)

By me, anyway. That time thing doesn't trouble me in the least.

I wished it didn't trouble anyone else.
Now, we have the NEW CRUSADERS, the next generation, ....so, the heroes will have to age some. But, beyond that, I'm just glad to have them back in the comicbook pages.

The Shield's machine that gives his suit power --strengthens the main organs of the body. He wouldn't really have to age at all.... and we could blame it on his machine.

Yeah, what is it?? S.H.I.E.L.D.??
Sacrum
Heart
Innervation
Eyes
Lungs
Derma....

A few blasts from his machine and he could end up completely revitalized.

The heroes could ALL be at their peak ....as far as I'm concerned.!!

Time is no problem, here. Heck, I don't even know what it is....I don't see it coming...and I don't see it going. We measure it,...but we don't know what the heck it is.!!!

In a comicbook world, it shouldn't be a problem!!

Calum User avatar
Gem Mint
Gem Mint

Posts: 258
Location: Edinburgh

yeah, i'm not buying any of the "before watchmen" stuff because of the fact that DC are only publishing those to keep the Watchmen TPB justifiably in print. Alan Moore originally signed a contract with DC saying the creative rights revert to the writer once the title is out of print. He expected to regain the rights in the late 1980s. DC immediately published the TPB of the series (one of the earliest graphic novels) and using various marketing techniques DC are still ensuring today that Watchmen will never go out of print and Alan Moore will never own the characters he put his heart and soul into.

I did however buy ALL the Tom Strong/Promethea/Terra Obscura books and they are VERY well worth it. Far better than the new watchmen spinoffs i would suspect. </rant>

Yes, i need to get Whistling Skull too. Very happy DC didn't throw out the elseworlds along with the rest of their continuity. I thought i would never see the JSA in the 1940s ever again!

But no. They cannot claim time moves slower there than here. DC tried this, you remember? in the nineties, in an effort to stave off their five year reboots for a while, and it was ridiculous. A world filled with intelligent robots and amazing exo skeletons cannot be stuck in the 1980s while we're in the 21st century in this world and we don't have all that stuff. Archie will lose my respect if they continue to go the easy cheap DC way like this.

Anyway you can see in the 1980s stories that it is the 1980s. You can see in the '60s stories that it's the sixties, from the way they talk, and dress etc. The Web is still climbing up buildings in the '80s (and mentioning that he's a trained criminologist like he was in the '40s, and he has the same wife as in the 1960s), there's no easy way out of that.

However did we not see somewhere in New Crusaders that someone or other (need to re-read) said they had noticed they were aging a third slower than usual? No explanation for why but it definitely is the start of an explanation.

Sorry to keep mentioning it but no comics are not some airy fairy imagination world where anything goes. Stories written from that point of view are crap, and this includes the sixties Mighty Crusaders run for the most part, sadly. Like any fiction, good writing means believable writing. It doesn't have to be hard science, but it does have to have some sort of explanation i think.
PS: Hey! Check out my music at http://www.calumsmusic.com and fill your ears with happiness!

captainzero User avatar
Gem Mint
Gem Mint

Posts: 435
Well, I understand where you're coming from.
...BUT.....A few nights ago I was reading some of the Red Circle stuff from the 1980's ...and in one of the columns ...I think it was Rich Buckler...said something like... "these characters, like Archie, are timeless."

I'll try to find the exact quote but I'm kinda with that idea. These heroes really haven't had a chance to really shine.... since the '40's. Yes, Rich Buckler got them off to a good start in '83...but the Mighty Crusaders only went 13 issues. In the '60's ...about 6 issues.

The Shield and the others ARE showing a little age, .... and the kids make them a little older.... but I just want the MLJ-Red Circle Heroes to REALLY get their deserved "time in the Sun" before they age out of the game.

I think they deserve a chance to finally shine, --- I want them to suit up and have some of their GREATEST ADVENTURES this time out.

I don't want them to go 12 or thirteen issues and fold up.!! And I don't want age to hold them back from being some of the GREATEST SUPER-HEROES on the stands today.
I hope The NEW CRUSADERS do really well... and the line expands to The MIGHTY CRUSADERS...and beyond.

Calum, what is TIME??!!

Especially in the world of comics.?? The more we love the characters, the less time should impact them.
For me, these guys should be just hitting their PEAK.

For me, the MLJ-Red Circle characters still have a chance to restore that "fun of comics" that many of us had always hoped we would see out of them.

If that sounds too much like a fan, I apologize. ,!-- s*^_^* -->*^_^*,!-- s*^_^* --> aND I'm not suggesting books where "any thing goes".
I think Ian and the boys are dealing with it rather sensibly.

Calum User avatar
Gem Mint
Gem Mint

Posts: 258
Location: Edinburgh

no need to apologise, actually i am quite liking the small hints in the story so far that the characters are perhaps also aware of this, i'm not saying they all have to be aged, and in fact i agree it'd be a huge pity if they had aged behind the scenes while they weren't being published (kind of like the JSA but more so), all i'm hoping for is some sort of explanation, like the way All-Star Squadron annual 3 explained how quite a few of the JSA and some of their pals had aged a bit slower than usual. We already have that for Steel Sterling, The Original Shield and now the original Inferno and Comet too perhaps, but let's see that come out in a future storyline i say. I actually think they will do this, if they continue publishing this line for any length of time.
PS: Hey! Check out my music at http://www.calumsmusic.com and fill your ears with happiness!

captainzero User avatar
Gem Mint
Gem Mint

Posts: 435
Calum wrote:
no need to apologise, actually i am quite liking the small hints in the story so far that the characters are perhaps also aware of this, i'm not saying they all have to be aged, and in fact i agree it'd be a huge pity if they had aged behind the scenes while they weren't being published (kind of like the JSA but more so), all i'm hoping for is some sort of explanation, like the way All-Star Squadron annual 3 explained how quite a few of the JSA and some of their pals had aged a bit slower than usual. We already have that for Steel Sterling, The Original Shield and now the original Inferno and Comet too perhaps, but let's see that come out in a future storyline i say. I actually think they will do this, if they continue publishing this line for any length of time.

I strongly agree with you.
Yeah, just to see what will come out of the future storyline should be interesting.

It probably would be too easy to have The Shield put everybody under his machine and rejuvinate their bodies... and put them on a high protein, mega vitamin diet. .....It should be interesting.

Glad you're here, Calum.

I hope it's THIS TIME that the MLJ heroes are a big success and establish themselves for the "long-haul".

As far as: what is time?? --- this is what a friend of mine says:
".....in the tradition of Gottfried Leibniz[15] and Immanuel Kant,[22][23] holds that time is neither an event nor a thing, and thus is not itself measurable nor can it be travelled."

Neither an event or a thing....not itself measurable nor can it be travelled....makes me wonder all the more.??
Another friend said that Einstien said it was "another dimension".... like width, depth, and length.

I have a headache, tonight,....and can not go into it any further...(or is it farther??) ....so, that's the best I can do on short notice. I just hope Red Circle keeps the MLJ heroes out of wheelchairs, and walkers...as they fight their "never ending battle against crime"....

Calum User avatar
Gem Mint
Gem Mint

Posts: 258
Location: Edinburgh

i know what you mean, though as i say, the JSA has been the only real "superheroes get old" storyline that has been genuinely played out over years, in a sort of realistic way, and i would be very very interested to see Archie's alternative take on this sort of storyline, BUT perhaps, like they did with Kip Burland the elder, they prefer to put across the idea that being a superhero is dangerous, and maybe a lot of them either retire or don't survive to old age...

Now, having read MC v2 1-13 again, there is one panel where the Fox mentions that he is the son of the original Fox (this works, since the 60s and 80s Fox was infatuated with Delilah Monaco, and the 40s Fox wasn't), though i haven't checked the two parter from Blue Ribbon vol 2 yet for inconsistencies there. Both are named Paul Patton of course.

Also, The Web mentions in MC 8 or 9 i think that he is the son of the original Web, though this is thornier since the 60s Web was married to Rose (Pow girl) and so was the 80s Web (the son), HOWEVER 60s Web mentions several times that he is older and not able to swashbuckle as well as in his younger days. The only solution i can think of is that PERHAPs the 60s Web stories featured the son and the father selectively, never showing them both in the same story (though that'd be an excellent idea for a storyline, one superhero is actually a father and son team! And it's even slightly similar to the !mpact Web which was a government agency masquerading as one superhero), i don't think even that works though, because there are some stories in Mighty Comics where he is both married and moaning about his age! By sheer coincidence of course, both son and father are named John Raymond and are criminologists! (and perhaps both are married to different identical looking women called Rose who disapprove of his Web activities, and who both become Pow girl (yes we know "new" Rose is Pow Girl too, because we see it in New Crusaders 1!))

I also really want to know what happened to Bill Higgins (did they actually say in print that he is the original Shield's son or was that retconned from somewhere?), perhaps that was another case of two (or more?) guys being mistaken for the same superhero, either deliberately or otherwise. Would make yet another good storyline for New Crusaders, i think!

Anyway, i hope my constant attempts at a no-prize aren't unwelcome here, i just like stories to make sense, or what's the point? To me it's part of the skill of writing, to have it make sense. Fly-Man, Mighty Crusaders vol 1 and Mighty Comics didn't really do this, and part of the fun is trying to piece it together in a sensical way (and that's partly what New Crusaders is actually doing, and very well so far i think).
PS: Hey! Check out my music at http://www.calumsmusic.com and fill your ears with happiness!

captainzero User avatar
Gem Mint
Gem Mint

Posts: 435
Anyway, i hope my constant attempts at a no-prize aren't unwelcome here, i just like stories to make sense, or what's the point? To me it's part of the skill of writing, to have it make sense. Fly-Man, Mighty Crusaders vol 1 and Mighty Comics didn't really do this, and part of the fun is trying to piece it together in a sensical way (and that's partly what New Crusaders is actually doing, and very well so far i think).

I'm with you. It should make sense.

It was a Black Hood that died in that one story...and laid out at the morgue.
The SHIELD was turned into stone for years....
Mr. JUSTICE will be o.k. ....if he isn't "destroyed" somehow....

and good luck to Ian and "the Brain Trust" with the rest of it.
That WEB ....and some of the others are going to need some explaining.

Maybe the "ground-work" will be laid in LEGACY:

"The Shield teaches these New Crusaders about the early history of their parents, the Mighty Crusaders, seen by the reader in the form of some of the best classic tales from the 1980s Red Circle super hero titles. Featuring legendary comic artists such as Steve Ditko and Alex Toth!"

Script (new): Ian Flynn
Script (classic): Robert Kanigher, Marty Greim, Chas Ward, Stan Timmons, Bill Dubay, Rich Margopoulos, and David Singer

Art (new): Jerry Gaylord, Kent Archer, John Workman, and Thomas Mason

Art (classic): Steve Ditko, Gray Morrow, Alex Toth, Carmine Infantino, Eduardo Barreto, Dick Ayers, Chic Stone, Rich Buckler, Frank Giacoia, Vicatan, Lou Manna, Rex Lindsey, Alex Nino, Alan Kupperberg, Adrian Gonzales, and Ricardo Villagran

Cover: Ben Bates
978-1-936975-22-8

I especially enjoyed Marty Greim's THE SHIELD... so, it'll be great to see it back in print.
And, of course, all of the other "greats" that contributed to LEGACY OF THE CRUSADERS!!
And the "new guys", too.!! Of course.

Next

Return to MIGHTY CRUSADERS MESSAGE BOARD!

cron